Seventeen people were killed and at least 15 other people were wounded on February 14听at the Stoneman Douglas High School in Broward County, Florida, in one of the deadliest school shootings in US听history.
More evidence has emerged showing that the gunman, a 19-year-old former student named Nikolas Cruz, shared a common trait with many other men who have carried out mass shootings: He had a record of abusing and threatening women. On February 15, a white nationalist hate group called the Republic of Florida Militia also claimed the gunman was a member who had trained with the militia, but the group鈥檚 leader later walked back the claim. Former classmates of Cruz did describe him as politically extreme and espousing racist beliefs.
To discuss these issues, 听蝉辫辞办别听飞颈迟丑 George Ciccariello-Maher, a visiting scholar at the Hemispheric Institute at New York University and the author of Decolonizing Dialectics,听补苍诲 Trevor Aaronson, executive director and co-founder of the Florida Center for Investigative Reporting and a contributing writer to The Intercept. The full transcipt is below the video.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听On Thursday, the听FBI听confirmed it had received a tip about someone who went by the name Nikolas Cruz online. That鈥檚 Nikolas spelled with a K, N-I-K-O-L-A-S, an unusual spelling. The听FBI听was notified by a YouTube user after Cruz left a threatening comment on a video. This is听FBI听Special Agent Robert Lasky.
搁翱叠贰搁罢听尝础厂碍驰:听In 2017, the听FBI听received information about a comment made on a YouTube channel. The comment simply said, 鈥淚鈥檓 going to be a professional school shooter.鈥 No other information was included with that comment which would indicate a time, location or the true identity of the person who made the comment. The听FBI听conducted database reviews, checks, but was unable to further identify the person who actually made the comment.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听Meanwhile, more evidence has emerged showing the Florida school gunman, Nikolas Cruz, shared a common trait with many other men who have carried out mass shootings: He had a record of abusing and threatening women. One student told听The New York Times听Nikolas Cruz was abusive towards his ex-girlfriend, was expelled after getting in a fight with her new boyfriend. Another student told听The New York Times听he had been close friends with Cruz but cut him off after he started going after and threatening a female friend of his. And Cruz鈥檚 former math teacher told the听Times听he was taken with another student to the point of stalking her.
Fellow students also said Cruz was known for holding extreme political views. On Thursday, a white nationalist hate group called the Republic of Florida Militia claimed the gunman was a member who had trained with the militia, but the group鈥檚 leader later walked back that claim. The former classmates of Cruz did describe him as politically extreme. A 17-year-old junior named Ocean Parodie told听The Daily Beast听Cruz鈥攓uote, 鈥淔or example, he would degrade Islamic people as terrorists and bombers. I鈥檝e seen him wear a Trump hat.鈥 Cruz once posted a photograph on Instagram wearing a mask and a red 鈥淢ake America Great Again鈥 hat.听CNN听also aired footage of a shirtless Cruz wearing the same hat, shooting a gun in his backyard, that was taken by a next-door neighbor. A 16-year-old junior, Josh Charo, who was in听JROTC听with Cruz鈥攖hat鈥檚 the military training program for high school kids鈥攕aid Cruz often expressed racist beliefs. Charo told听The Daily Beast, 鈥淗e would always talk about how he felt whites were a bit higher than everyone. He鈥檇 be like, 'My people are over here industrializing the world and starting new things, while your people [meaning blacks and Latinos] are just taking up space.'鈥 In a comment he posted to a YouTube video, Nikolas Cruz also singled out anti-fascist protesters, known as Antifa, to threaten mass murder. His comment read, 鈥淚m going watch them sheep fall f鈥 antifa i wish to kill as many as i can.鈥
Well, we鈥檙e joined right now by two guests. In Philadelphia, George Ciccariello-Maher is with us, visiting scholar at the Hemispheric Institute at New York University, author of听Decolonizing Dialectics. And Trevor Aaronson is with us from Florida, the executive director and co-founder of the Florida Center for Investigative Reporting, a nonprofit journalism organization, also a contributing writer to听The Intercept.
Trevor, let鈥檚 begin with you. What needs to be understood right now about what took place in Florida?
罢搁贰痴翱搁听础础搁翱狈厂翱狈:听[inaudible] that we鈥檇 be having much more of today, if Nikolas Cruz鈥檚 name was Mohammed Mohammed, would be, you know: What was the FBI鈥檚 intelligence failure in this? I mean, if you consider the media response and the public outcry following Omar Mateen鈥檚 shooting in Orlando, the large question was: How did we miss this? How did the听FBI听miss this?
And I think what you鈥檙e seeing is that the听FBI听has the mechanisms, through processes called threat assessments, to conduct wide-ranging investigations for people who may pose a threat to people or public safety, and that in Omar Mateen鈥檚 case, we saw two of those conducted for鈥攜ou know, the basis being someone had mentioned to the听FBI听that Omar Mateen knew the Boston Marathon bombers, and that justified an investigation where the听FBI听interviewed Mateen, looked through his records.
By contrast, here in Nikolas Cruz鈥檚 case, he posted on YouTube, making threatening statements. Given the unusual spelling of his first name, given that he used his real name on the social media comments, you know, it鈥檚 a little bit hard to believe that the听FBI听did not have an opportunity to dig up some information in records, including gun purchase records, that would have been able to at least give them some reason to continue that investigation.
And so, I think what we鈥檙e seeing here is really a question of what did the听FBI听know and whether they should have pursued this more aggressively. You know, I think what we know from previous investigations, that if they believed that Nikolas Cruz was, you know, involved in kind of radical ideologies involving Islam, such as听ISIS听or al-Qaeda, we would have seen a much more vigorous investigation than what we鈥檝e seen so far, based on what the听FBI听has come forward with on its investigation of Nikolas Cruz.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听I mean, the suspect, Nikolas Cruz, reportedly commented on YouTube, 鈥淚鈥檓 going to be a professional school shooter,鈥 again, with his name, with the spelling of his name. And between 2010 and now, the local police visited him, according to听CNN, 39 times, his family, for domestic violence or a mentally ill individual at his house. His neighbors talk about how the police were always coming there. There is a serious鈥攁nd yet,听FBI听said, you know, 鈥淲e can鈥檛 begin to find something like this.鈥
罢搁贰痴翱搁听础础搁翱狈厂翱狈:听Yeah, I think it鈥檚 important to remember that, you know, post-9/11, the government created a number of entities, or beefed up a number of entities, that would have allowed for the greater sharing of information and intelligence from police agencies to federal law enforcement. A big part of that is the creation of joint terrorism task forces around the country. And one of the largest of those in the nation is in South Florida, and that facilitates the sharing of information, intelligence, from local police to federal law enforcement.
And the way the system is supposed to work鈥擨 mean, this system was designed, in large part, to find the next 9/11 attackers, so to speak. But it鈥檚 also designed to find people like Nikolas Cruz, who, you know, pose a significant threat to public safety. And the way the system is supposed to work is that by identifying threats, such as the YouTube comment he made, in his own name, you know, not using an alias and seemingly not using a听VPN听to shield his IP address, that type of tip should have been processed through something like a听JTTF, that may have unearthed the police visits in his home in Broward County.
You know, I think it鈥檚 important to recognize that, obviously, it鈥檚 easy to play Monday morning quarterback here and say, 鈥淗ere鈥檚 what the听FBI听missed.鈥 But I also think it鈥檚 important to point out that this is really the FBI鈥檚 job, that post-9/11 its primary purpose has been to find threats before they happen. And that doesn鈥檛 just involve people who are inspired by听ISIS听and al-Qaeda. It also involves people who are inspired by other radical ideologies, or, you know, frankly, who are, as Donald Trump pointed out, mentally ill. I mean, the goal is, no matter what the ideology or the purpose, that if someone poses a significant threat, these information-sharing processes are supposed to be able to help the听FBI听identify the person before they commit their crime.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听I want to turn for a moment to a guest we had on recently. Shortly after the Pulse nightclub shooting in Orlando, that was in June 2016, not so far away from where the Parkland shooting has just happened,听Democracy Now!听听to Soraya Chemaly, and I asked her about this often-overlooked connection between domestic violence and mass shootings.
SORAYA听CHEMALY:听You see repeatedly in these cases of mass violence, particularly where four or more people are killed, that the perpetrator had a history of attacking an intimate partner, a parent. It happened in the Boston massacre. It happened in Sandy Hook. And so, for many of us, you kind of just wait for this information to come to the surface. And we wonder: Why is it that this kind of behavior isn鈥檛 seen as an essential element to understanding lethality in public violence? 鈥
If you have a person living in your community that is violently abusive towards his family, that is a concern for the broader community. In this case in Orlando, which is often the case, there seems to be no report made to the police, which means that we鈥檙e inhibited as a society from taking further action. So, he, for example, was completely able to go and legally get guns. We have a federal law that should have prohibited that, if, for example, he had had a restraining order. But more than 50 states actually do not have laws that support that.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听So that鈥檚 journalist Soraya Chemaly. And again, just to reiterate, one student told听The New York Times听Nikolas Cruz was abusive towards his ex-girlfriend, was expelled after getting in a fight with her new boyfriend. Another student told the听Times听he had been close friends with Cruz but cut him off after he started going after and threatening a female friend of his. A math teacher said he was bothering another female student to the point of stalking her. George Ciccariello-Maher, respond to this.
GEORGE听CICCARIELLO-MAHER:听[inaudible] whatsoever. And, you know, this shooter, who is apparently a white supremacist, is also and has also been violent toward women in his life. This is something that we have known. This is not a surprise. These things go hand in hand, because white supremacy and patriarchy are violent structures of power that, when frustrated, lead to violent conclusions. And yet, when we say this over and over again in the media, it鈥檚 treated as if it鈥檚 the first time anyone has ever heard it. And all of the data and all the information that we have out there has everything, you know, to tell us that this is actually accurate. And, you know, this is what was said after the Las Vegas鈥攁fter the Las Vegas shooting, when it came out that the shooter had been, in public, violently aggressive toward his own partner. And it happens repeatedly in cases like this. And it鈥檚 really frustrating to have to say over and over again, you know, that this correlation exists, that violence toward women, in this case, also violence toward animals, this sort of violent outlet of aggression across this person鈥檚 life, has something to do with feelings of dominance that are also expressed in what is apparently white supremacist ideology, as well.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听Now, this issue of the connection to white supremacy, let me go back to Trevor, then to George. Trevor Aaronson, this issue of the link of a person from a Florida white supremacist group saying that Nikolas Cruz trained with them, but now walking it back?
罢搁贰痴翱搁听础础搁翱狈厂翱狈:听Yeah, so, initially, we had a number of reports, that were first initiated by some research that was done by the Anti-Defamation League, that linked Nikolas Cruz to a group based in Tallahassee called the Republic of Florida, which is a white nationalist group that says it鈥檚 trying to bring about, you know, a white-only state of Florida. And what the leader of that group said, Jacob Jered, was that Nikolas Cruz had trained with them and was a member of their group. And, in fact, in a subsequent interview with听The Daily Beast, Jacob Jered said that they had actually purchased a weapon for him and had trained with him in Tallahassee, as well.
Later, on Gab, which is a Twitter-like social media platform that was set up to provide a home for white supremacists who had been kicked off Twitter for their odious views, Jacob鈥擨鈥檓 sorry, Jacob Jered, the leader of the Republic of Florida, walked that back and basically said, 鈥淥h, you know, we have a number of people named Nikolas, and I got confused.鈥
And so, it鈥檚 hard to know if Jacob Jered was just using this tragedy as a way of, you know, getting his organization鈥檚 name out there. And if that鈥檚 the case, you know, it certainly worked. Or, you know, it鈥檚 also possible that Nikolas Cruz did have some white supremacist views. The sourcing on that is a little bit shaky right now, and it鈥檚 hard to know. I mean, based on some of the comments that he made against Antifa, for example, I mean, certainly there was some political ideology on the right, but at the same time it鈥檚 is a little bit unclear, I think, whether he was indeed a part of a white supremacist group or identified with a white supremacist ideology.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听And, of course, you have his friends saying he was Islamophobic, he was saying whites were superior to blacks and Latinos. And then, continuing on this issue of the connection between this kind of racism and his misogyny.
罢搁贰痴翱搁听础础搁翱狈厂翱狈:听Yeah. I mean, getting back to the point I was making earlier about how, you know, the FBI鈥檚 threat assessment system is designed to establish these kind of warning signs and piece them together and put together a profile of who might be dangerous, and then allocate resources accordingly, whether that鈥檚 dropping by Nikolas Cruz鈥檚 house to interview him and maybe scaring him straight or to, you know, build a case to put together a file that might give you reason to suspect that he could be dangerous in the future. But, you know, certainly, the comments that he made on YouTube and certainly the kind of racist comments that he had made or鈥攜ou know, a threat assessment, for example, could involve the interviewing of students, of friends, and that鈥檚 the type of process that would unearth the things that the media has since unearthed, which is that Nikolas Cruz seemed to have some right-wing beliefs that may have bordered on violence. And, you know, had the听FBI听investigated this, as you see them investigate cases of possible Islamic extremism, I think it鈥檚 a fair argument to make that what the听FBIwould have known about Nikolas Cruz would have been much more significant than what it did when the shootings happened, which was basically that the听FBI听has admitted to knowing very little, if anything, about Nikolas Cruz at the time of the attack.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听The issue of Nikolas Cruz being involved with听JROTC, with Junior听ROTC, George Ciccariello-Maher, if you could talk abut your concerns about this? Also one of the young women who was killed was also a member of听JROTC.
GEORGE听CICCARIELLO-MAHER:听I think we should, you know, be very attentive to all of these factors. It鈥檚 difficult to draw out of his involvement in what is, you know, a very widespread military training program. We should, of course, however, be aware that these are鈥攜ou know, these are military training programs for a U.S. government that鈥檚 involved in mass violence abroad. And we shouldn鈥檛 always be surprised to see that violence brought home.
I think we should focus very sharply in this case, though, on this question of white supremacist organizing. I know there are a lot of details going back and forth about it. I wouldn鈥檛 be surprised that the鈥攜ou know, the founder of this white nationalist organization is walking it back out of fear of the scrutiny that he鈥檚 going to receive. As I understand it, it was also confirmed by听ABC听via several classmates that he had been involved in this group. And I think we need to be aware of the fact that the last year has seen a dramatic uptick in open white supremacist, white nationalist violence. We know that these are violent organizations. We know that they鈥檙e breeding violence. We鈥檝e seen it in Charlottesville. We鈥檝e seen it when Milo鈥檚 supporters have opened fire, you know, on others. And supporters of Richard Spencer have encouraged violence at protests.
And we need to鈥攜ou know, at the same time, we鈥檙e told that these are just ideas in the great marketplace of ideas to be debated and discussed. But what we need to realize is that you don鈥檛 discuss white supremacy. You don鈥檛 debate it. You destroy it. You out-organize it. And that鈥檚 something that we need to be doing on a much broader level, while we鈥檙e trying to grapple with what鈥檚 gone on in this instance, because we see people being radicalized.
Of course, if they were, you know, Muslim, they would be鈥攜ou know, the question of where were they radicalized has become a bit of a meme, and yet we don鈥檛 ask this question when it comes to these radicalized white youth, who are鈥攜ou know, who are involved in this mass violence, who are in discussion groups. This is the second鈥攊f this is true about his white supremacist ties, this is the second 鈥渁lt-right鈥 school shooting in two months, the last one in New Mexico by someone who was actively involved in The Daily Stormer, one of the most violent right-wing, anti-Semitic websites on the far right. And this association is direct, and yet we had Trump eliminating almost all oversight of, you know, scrutiny toward white supremacist groups. Even Obama had been cutting that funding. And so, we know that the government is not鈥攈as no interest in prosecuting and undermining white supremacist organizations, and that organizations on the ground are going to need to do that themselves.
础惭驰听骋翱翱顿惭础狈:听Well, we鈥檙e going to leave it there. I want to thank you both for being with us, Trevor Aaronson, for joining us from St. Petersburg, with the Florida Center for Investigative Reporting and听The Intercept; George Ciccariello-Maher, visiting scholar at the Hemispheric Institute at New York University, speaking to us from Philadelphia.